r/news • u/JohnW305 • May 28 '23
JPMorgan has announced it is developing a ChatGPT-like AI service that utilizes the company's data and gives customers investment advice.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/25/jpmorgan-develops-ai-investment-advisor.html80
u/black_flag_4ever May 28 '23
Wow, what could go right?
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u/YamburglarHelper May 28 '23
Maybe all the banks will collapse!
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u/shady8x May 28 '23
Maybe all the banks will
collapse!Receive a massive bailout because they are too big to fail, unlike the millions of people they spent years defrauding.
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u/DrVepr May 28 '23
...Because you should trust your bank to make your banking decisions for you... Like it wont be manipulated in their favor...
RIIIGHT...
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u/funkinthetrunk May 28 '23
They'll frontrun your trades and short your stocks
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u/Heretek007 May 28 '23
Joke's on then, I'm too poor to have either of those! Take that, capitalism!
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u/Ion_bound May 28 '23
I mean...Yes? That is, in fact, the point of hiring a wealth management service?
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u/CReWpilot May 28 '23
You’re replying to someone who probably doesn’t realize there is more to JPM than retail banking.
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u/mapinis May 28 '23
When they make money, you make money. That’s how investing works.
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u/agodfrey1031 May 28 '23
I’ve heard that sales pitch too. But the “best” fintech firms also quietly make money when you lose money, when you trade money, and when more-wealthy clients of theirs want information about what you’re doing with your money.
Saying “when you make money they make money” is about as naïve as saying “when you take risk, they’re taking the same risk”. I know no-one believes the latter … but sometimes they treat the former like that’s what it means.
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u/midsprat123 May 28 '23
I feel like an actual AI would help the customers and screw over the bank
One can only hope
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u/HoldOnDearLife May 28 '23
The AI will tell you after they get all their money in first. Then we pump their bags.
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u/Boollish May 28 '23
Is this really news?
Robo-visers have been a thing for a very long time. They've only gotten stronger as large scale data processing has gotten cheaper.
I mean, if it were me, I could make a great investment adviser for 90% of people that just does a weighted investment blend of bonds, growth, and value based on customer input.
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u/StrngBrew May 28 '23
I was going to say this likely just them rebranding their already existing robo advisors
It really doesn’t take genius coding to just have something suggest people invest in a model portfolio
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u/Chiggadup May 28 '23
This was my first thought too.
Robo-advisors are already incredibly common and accessible/affordable for most people.
My money is on them pushing the chat AI angle as customer service before suggesting most people should be investing 15% of their income in target date funds…
Not bad advice, but not exactly ground breaking.
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u/TehNoff May 28 '23
It ain't hard to tell a robot to tell people to VTSAX and chill
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u/dasunt May 28 '23
For most people, that won't work.
Not because it isn't excellent investment advice for the long term (it is a great investment), but because of human nature and needs.
The advisor has to evaluate the customer's risk tolerance correctly, and figure out a mix of funds and bonds to match that risk.
So for you and me, we may VTSAX and chill. But for John and Jane Doe, they may need an advisor to throw some bonds into the mix and tell them to not panic when the market goes down.
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u/BlindWillieJohnson May 28 '23
I think it’s an example of this tech’s ability to erase tens of millions of jobs before anyone stops to consider what the broader impact of that will be, or puts any kind of safety net in place for them.
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May 28 '23
I don't see how you are arriving to that destination with this. Again, as mentioned, AI/robo-advisors have been around for a long LONG time now. Those jobs you are afraid of being stolen don't exist.
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u/BlindWillieJohnson May 28 '23
I think in the next decade, a whole lot of people in financial advisor roles, sales roles, and many other account management positions are going to be phased out because Gen AI will have developed the capability to do them. And they won't be alone. There are entire industries where I think people will be replaced wholesale. It's learning how to do most repetitive and pattern oriented tasks.
"AI advisors have been around for a long time" doesn't really track. The things Gen AI is proving capable of dwarf what we've seen in the past, and their capability is only going to grow. I have serious worries about the future if some sort of safety net for current workers isn't erected, because at the rate the tech is developing, mass job replacement will be here sooner than anyone cares to admit.
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u/GeneralZex May 28 '23
Already this year 7800 job are slated for layoffs due to AI by IBM.
Wendy’s and Carl’s Jr. are planning to replace drive thru order takers with AI.
A recent study with call center employees doesn’t bode well for call center jobs: the AI improved productivity of the lowest skilled employees much more than high skilled ones and the high degree of accuracy of the AI answering customer queries arguably means they don’t even need humans at all… but the company could throw out high skilled and churn and burn low skilled and maintain the same level of service and increase profits.
Sure roboadvisors exist. This AI is not just for that market segment. It may be today or will be but it’s for the wealth management side. The mostly human wealth managers who take a cut of AUM. JPM wants that cut for themselves and AI will, eventually, do a better job for them and cost “nothing” comparatively. So they will get the axe.
Any job involving a desk and computer is not safe from extinction with AI.
Edit: Forgot to mention Chinese game companies are laying off artists in favor of AI. One just recently laid off all of their artists. US game companies won’t be far behind them.
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u/RCTID1975 May 29 '23
Wendy’s and Carl’s Jr. are planning to replace drive thru order takers with AI.
Those jobs should've been replaced a decade ago with simple touch screens.
Any job involving a desk and computer is not safe from extinction with AI.
You clearly have no concept of what's actually possible.
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u/Trugdigity May 28 '23
Won’t someone think of the horse dream carriage industry!?!
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u/BlindWillieJohnson May 28 '23
When was the last time the workforce had to deal with technology that could think for them? It's never happened.
You tech fetishists always have the same tired reply to this very real concern, but upgrades in machinery are not comparable to the paradigm shift that's coming. We're not talking about upgrading away from telephone operators here; Generative AI has the ability to replace human critical thinking. And that's all the bulk of the American work force knows how to do.
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u/mobileagnes May 28 '23
Aren't these tools just extremely good auto-completion based on all the input data that was fed into it? Can they really reason?
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u/RCTID1975 May 29 '23
Can they really reason?
No, they can't, and people don't seem to understand that.
The only real difference between ChatGPT and your standard run of the mill chatbot is that you can tell GPT when something is wrong, and it'll attempt to find the right answer.
That doesn't mean it'll ever actually find the right answer, and you have to know something is wrong to be able to tell it that in the first place.
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u/Trugdigity May 28 '23
Except it is, the Individual Revolution reshaped society at its very core, AI looks like it could do the same.
At the founding of the country the bulk of the American workforce where farm hands, or craftsmen. With the widespread adoption of mechanized manufacturing most of those craftsmen lost their jobs, and farms became much less labor reliant.
That’s what’s happening now to knowledge, and lower level creative work. In short we’ve seen this before and our only real choice is adapt or die.
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u/GeneralZex May 28 '23
There’s a third choice: make it so expensive to utilize AI as a human replacement via the tax code that no company does it at all to any significant extent.
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u/Trugdigity May 28 '23
And then some other country uses it and out competes us. If AI turns out to be the superior tool not using it is just choosing to die.
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u/GeneralZex May 28 '23
We use it the economy crumbles eventually. We don’t use it we maybe lose on the world stage.
Nobody thought twice about flooding the market with junk subprime loans; it all worked “great” until it didn’t and everyone was surprise pikachu face when the housing market collapsed and sent the world into recession.
AI will be the same thing but much, much worse.
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u/Trugdigity May 29 '23
Comparing AI to subprime loans is like comparing apples to Honda Civics. If you want a comparison other then mechanization, AI is like the growth if the banking sector itself. And it will be just as disruptive. But that just means we need to learn to use it effectively, not that we give in to doomsday bullshit.
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u/GeneralZex May 29 '23
My point is corporations will seek the easy money that is AI proliferation and none will stop to think about the macro-economic ramifications of their choices until the economy collapses and it’s too late.
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u/RCTID1975 May 29 '23
We use it the economy crumbles eventually.
The economy just shifts. It always does when major inventions occur.
This isn't new, it's happened multiple times throughout history.
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u/plumbbbob May 28 '23
The bulk of the American work force is engaged in … critical thinking‽ What utopian alternate timeline did you arrive from?
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u/GeneralZex May 28 '23
That’s not at all applicable here. The horse carriage industry had cars to replace them; you know machines much more complex than a horse and buggy to maintain and repair.
More analogous would be the advent of computers, but even they still required people to use them. You couldn’t just slap 50 computers in an office and get 50x the work done without humans to use them.
You can do 1 AI and 1 human and do the work of 10 people however…
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u/Trugdigity May 28 '23
AI requires people to design them, people to maintain the machines they’re installed on, people to build and maintain the networks the use to gather information, and finally to carry out their suggestions.
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u/Wolfram_And_Hart May 29 '23
They needed something new to belated their stock price. They are going to blockchain their cloud next.
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u/Aggravating_Visit_86 May 28 '23
Will this AI be aware of naked shorting and dark pools and all the manipulations in the stock market?
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u/Thac May 28 '23
It’ll be like google maps, everyone will use it and google basically directs the flow of traffic, but only money and not significantly into your own account.
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u/personalcheesecake May 28 '23
If it works like other ai models have it'll probably learn to become a vulture capitalist
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u/twentyfuckingletters May 28 '23
Only if you mention it in a public forum they can scrape and train on illegally. That would never happen though.
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u/-Princess_Charlotte- May 28 '23
I'm sorry what? Large language models don't perform analysis. they don't care if the information they're presenting is accurate, only that it looks like a human wrote it.
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u/Has_hog May 28 '23
That’s why it’s integrated. ChatGPT processes information, it doesn’t just focus on word crafting. It should be obvious that other AI-related features can be added to chatGPT and create LLM hybrids that are much more valuable.
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u/InterPunct May 28 '23
I can only imagine the number of hours the lawyers billed with verbiage indemnifying them from the expected bad advice.
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u/FoxInABeret May 28 '23
Sounds like a long, one-way train to litigation station.
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u/Chiggadup May 28 '23
Most of these tools already exist, and have for a relatively long time.
My guess is all they’re doing is adding a sleek AI chatbot to their existing robo-advisor and charging extra for the “customer service.”
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u/MohandasBlondie May 28 '23
I imagine a good number of people on Wall Street could use a nice long ride to the train station.
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u/ChelseaG12 May 28 '23
This couldn't possibly go wrong
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May 28 '23
It's not going to do anything that they don't already have installed. They're just putting a new name on top as a marketing gimmick, maybe a better chat feature. Most big investment firms already offer "ai" driven investment tools.
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May 28 '23
[deleted]
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u/XBattousaiX May 28 '23
Why rely on AI to fuck things up when I can do it just as well, If Not better, myself!
I can see this AI getting hacked, telling all users to invest in X stock while the hackers sell that shitty stock at a high price and fuck everyone over
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u/Jeffery_G May 28 '23
You mean the AI that spits out all kinds of things that sound good but are literally inventions of rhetoric? Keep your portfolio as is or demand a living, breathing person.
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u/IncomingAxofKindness May 28 '23
u/visualmod on r/wallstreetbets already does this. They should just hire him/it.
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u/SeeThroughBanana May 28 '23
Cant wait for scammers to figure out how to trick it into giving them other peoples account info and then JP find out about it real late and get hit with a whopping 1 million dollar fine
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u/Murgatroyd314 May 28 '23
I suspect chatgpt is just as qualified to give investment advice as it is to play chess.
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u/loredon May 28 '23
It’s actually very good at explaining investment related topics. And usually accurate. Especially if you turn in wolfram so it can validate the math.
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u/deramix May 28 '23
Their core AI algorithm: if (Math.random() < 0.5) { return “BUY”; } else { return “SELL;}
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u/CharleyNobody May 28 '23
“We’ll no longer have customer service representatives on staff. Use our fantastic new AI instead, which our studies show to be far superior to using a human to brush you off.
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u/RCTID1975 May 29 '23
That's existed for years now. How many sites do you go to with the little chat box? That's all automated and based on keywords
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May 28 '23
This is how you know the bullshit jobs are bullshit - AI comes to do them first. Wealth managers are definitely easy pickins.
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u/Bokbreath May 28 '23
don't invest in pedophile billionaires with private islands
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u/LivefromPhoenix May 28 '23
Sorry, the algorithm says billionaires with pedo islands are hot right now.
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u/baaaahbpls May 28 '23
We recently got a whistleblower that monitors the employees themselves with predictive technology, it only makes sense for them to branch out and analyze people and use the data maliciously.
JP Morgan seems to want to take all individual thought out of everything they can and only have their truth be sold.
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u/fjf1085 May 28 '23
I feel like ChapGPT is the new NFT or bitcoin. People lost their shit over it and got so excited about how it would change the world and then it was mostly a dud. It’s not really capable of new and innovative thinking. I mean ask it to develop a new form of rocket fuel and included a full chemical formal and procedure or something like that and it can’t. It can’t generate new things, all it does it take what it’s learned and spit it back out. It’s almost like a blender, it takes all its input and tries to give you an output. That output often makes zero sense for technical things. On top of that it stopped learning in like 2018 so it can’t talk about anything current.
Call me when it can generate new ideas.
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u/mobileagnes May 28 '23
September 2021 is the cutoff date so far (but it will give you the current date if you ask for that specifically).
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u/CarlMarcks May 28 '23
That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
When are higher corporate taxes going to be in the news with all of these dog shit companies turning towards ai??
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u/Mastr_Blastr May 28 '23
There are already vendors out there selling such a product to FIs.
How well do they work? Not like CEO's care, it's the latest shiny object.
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u/Has_hog May 28 '23
People are like “ya tell me when it can generate new ideas”. Most jobs that people are paid for, and make their living by, are bullshit and not “generating new ideas”. The problem with AI is that without regulation it will effectively eliminate large swaths of the economy, ie. jobs.
Companies are routinely cutting labor to maintain profit margins, layoffs are incredibly common among American corporations. If AI can save a company millions, hell billions in the case of JP Morgan (by eliminating bs data entry jobs), they will do it.
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u/RCTID1975 May 29 '23
Most data entry jobs were eliminated decades ago. Especially in the banking industry
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u/Has_hog May 29 '23
You’re just wrong lol. There’s plenty of bullshit and easily replaceable jobs. Many jobs are data entry, just b/c it doesn’t explicitly say so doesn’t mean they aren’t that. And don’t try to debate me over it
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u/KelbyGInsall May 28 '23
A machine that supplements JP Morgan’s investments. It’s just paying them for telling you what to invest in.
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u/Complete_Entry May 28 '23
The dystopian in me makes me think you'll be able to opt out of this "service" for a few percentage points.
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u/Grow_away_420 May 28 '23
You can already ask a chatbot what to invest in and they'll give you about as good advice as anyone else.
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u/QuantumModulus May 28 '23
That says more about investing in general, than it does about chatbots tbh
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u/Wargoatgaming May 28 '23
The moral hazard for both the developers and the bank seems extremely high here.
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u/classless_classic May 28 '23
Yikes. I don’t think this will end well, if its actually implemented with current AI technology.
There are daily headlines of how badly the best AI tech can mess things up.
My guess is that they just want some boost from the AI momentum.
If there was an AI “that good”, they’d keep it to themselves.
What’s more likely to happen is they us this “AI” to pool people’s money to have more market moving power for trades that they’re already executing.
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May 28 '23
The number of people here that do not realize that most, if not all, large investment/bank firms already utilize some form of AI investing tool is astounding. Also shows you guys likely don't have any IRAs or 401ks. You should start worrying about that first since you likely won't have SS to rely on when you retire.
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u/jvcreddit May 28 '23
If many people follow the exact same advice and put their money in the exact same investments,. won't that alone make them go up? And after everyone is in, and prices stagnant, won't the AI suggest something else and many will follow that. I assume this will lead to booms and busts.
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u/RCTID1975 May 29 '23
Only if every scenario is the same.
This is AI though, so it should take into consideration your income level, risk aversion, age, etc. Because of that, people should be getting different results.
The problem is, AI in it's current form, is notoriously incorrect a lot of times, and in a situation like "what should I invest in", you can't confirm what you're being told as it's a suggestion, or more akin to an opinion than fact.
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u/JoshuaACNewman May 28 '23
The good news here is that financial advisors are notoriously useless anyway. They typically perform more poorly than index funds. Financial advisors are rent-seeking economic friction.
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u/cybersophy May 28 '23
Lots of business are exposing the true value of their services by claiming that they can be performed by mechanical parrots.
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u/Playful-Natural-4626 May 28 '23
BUT, can it help with the $500 shortfall in its employees pay?!?
Katie Porter’s whiteboard has questions.
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u/Paul_Allens_AR15 May 28 '23
Lots of investment banks have been trying to implement something like this.
But since this has ChatGPT in the title Stonks UP